Forums - SNK/Capcom Storyline inquiry Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Gaming Discussion (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=8) -- SNK/Capcom Storyline inquiry (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=40179) Posted by Chaotic Blue on September 17th, 2001 07:59 PM: SNK/Capcom Storyline inquiry SNK is starting to get my attention so I thought I would like to know more about it. Can you guys give me some info on Terry, Geese< Kyo, Iori, Mai, Rugal, Joe and some other interesting characters. Also about capcom. If Shotokan is an evil technique, why can you still play as ryu and not only evil ryu. Is ryu evil now or no, or is he sometimes evil? Why isn't there an evil Ken. Can someone explain to me about akuma's past and what his purpose is. ok, i think thats baout it. Thanks much, Chaotic Blue __________________ Typical James Games Tournament. Crazy Gideon: "Peter Rosas to machine 1!" Me: "Dude he's already playing" Crazy Gideon: "I know, he is disqualified. Next will be Mike Hunt vrs Mike Hawk." ... "Mike Hawk was taken from Mike Hunt, Mike Hunt is the winner!" Posted by soujiroten on September 17th, 2001 11:04 PM: There's a very good story FAQ on www.gamefaqs.com by Kailu Lantis about the story behind the SNK fighters... it's long and convoluted, so I won't even attempt to summarize. I have no idea how and/or why they decided to do that, but I guess they tried to distract folks from the lousy resolution and palette with a long and convoluted story. As to Gouki/Akuma's story, it's kinda handwavy, as capcom probably just wanted to put in a supershoto... just like all of their stories. Goutetsu was a wise old martial arts master. He had 2 students, Gouken and Gouki. Later on, Gouken became Ryu and Ken's master. He taught them, blah blah. Gouki got jealous, came by and killed Gouken with his 'dark' shotokan powers (raging demon). Gouken taught Ryu and Ken the shoryuken, but toned it down (it was a killing blow before). This is what I remember as the 'official' Capcom storyline. The 3 animes (Animated movie, Victory series and Zero episodes) that have been released are not 'official', and probably shouldn't have been taken as such. Probably the closest to canon would be the Zero episodes... --SJ Edit: Ryu has the potential to do the 'evil intent' thing like Gouki. That's why Gouki won't leave him alone... he wants a rival he can beat up and get beaten up by. Ken doesn't have as much potential as Ryu, so most people don't bother with him. Posted by BooBoo on September 17th, 2001 11:23 PM: kailu lantis's FAQ is interesting reading, but there is so much information, I'm not sure how much of it is derived from the actual games themselves. Some of it is probably from comics or something. Lantis can answer this himself, I've seen him post here before. Posted by DASH on September 18th, 2001 02:15 AM: Re: SNK/Capcom Storyline inquiry quote: Originally posted by Chaotic Blue SNK is starting to get my attention so I thought I would like to know more about it. Can you guys give me some info on Terry, Geese< Kyo, Iori, Mai, Rugal, Joe and some other interesting characters. Also about capcom. If Shotokan is an evil technique, why can you still play as ryu and not only evil ryu. Is ryu evil now or no, or is he sometimes evil? Why isn't there an evil Ken. Can someone explain to me about akuma's past and what his purpose is. ok, i think thats baout it. Thanks much, Chaotic Blue SHUT UP!!! If you want, I could let you borrow Street fighter the movie and SF Alpha the movie. I also have the only 2 fatal fury episodes and Fatal Fury the motion picture, but everything I have mentioned is on DVD. Peace Out!! __________________ WHUA DA FUUUK! Posted by ProTect on September 18th, 2001 02:27 AM: Blue (or anyone else who might be interested), I could hook you up with video cassettes of any Street Fighter or Fatal Fury stuff you might want. Just PM me and ask. Also, I have some print material for Capcom and SNK I could scan for you. __________________ Those aren't children. They're packets of cream cheese. - Space Ghost Roll over, Liberty. -Chevy Chase as Gerald Ford "The OutKastz" Number 9... Number 9... Number 9... Posted by Wicked Caped Ki on September 18th, 2001 03:04 AM: Okies Terry - The "SNK Hero." Pretty much the star of the classic SNK fighting series, Fatal Fury. When he was a little boy Geese Howard killed his father, Jeff Bogard, apparently because he was a threat to his crime empire (whose goal was world domination/world corruption) titled The Geese Connection (how original). Terry and his brother Andy trained for ten years to become strong to defeat Geese and avenge their father. Geese - The villain of the first Fatal Fury. He was an acquantance of Jeff Bogard's. He knows Aikijutsu and mixes his own offensive moves into things as well. He's pretty powerful. He ran the crime empire, The Geese Connection, but it was short lived when Terry beat him up and knocked him out of the window of the tower. Geese didn't die however, but he went missing for a year. In Fatal Fury 3, Geese comes back very much alive but Terry beats him again and knocks him into a fire. In KoF96 Geese returns again with the boss of Fatal Fury 2, Wolfgang Krauser(his half-brother), and the boss of Art of Fighting, Mr.Big. Geese dies in Real Bout Fatal Fury when Terry knocks him off the roof of his newly acquired tower. Oddly enough he comes back in Capcom Vs SNK and Real Bout Fatal Fury 2. Kyo - He is of the Kusanagi Clan. They are known to wield flames, with which they defeated the 8 headed orochi dragon in the ancient times. This style of fighting [with flames] is known as Magatama. He isn't particularly fond of Iori. Iori - Iori comes from the Yagami Clan. The Yagami Clan were formerly apart of the Kusanagi clan in ancient times. The Yagami Clan are the people who "misused" their flames. Upon being divided, the clans have been warring ever since. The Orochi dragon made an offer with them and gave them power, thus making their clan's flames purple. The power of the Orochi also drives Iori a little nutso at times too (ie, this qcf, hcb + p) and "Orochi Iori" is when he completely loses control of his sense and the evil within him takes over. Their style of fighting is also magatama but is a bit more... grotesque. Iori consider Kyo a bitter rival and wants to kill him. Mai - Mai is a bosomy ninja girl. She's a bit obsessive with Andy (Terry's brother) and is also his childhood friend. She gets along with Terry, Andy, and Blue Mary. She's also a friend of Joe's, though she considers him quite a pervert. She dislikes Geese Howard. No much else to be said about her. Rugal - He is the boss of KoF94, 95, and 98. He is the first person be able to wield the "full" potential power of the Orochi. It is because of his power, like geese howard, that he is able to make his own major crime organization. He holds the tournament King of Fighters 94, taking off where Geese left off, to find the man who defeated Geese and Krauser (Terry), defeat him, and turn him into a statue. (he has a thing for turning power fighters into statues for some reason) Unfortunately it wasn't the Fatal Fury guys that made it to him, it was Kyo's team. Nonetheless he wanted to kick some ass, and he turned out to be a nearly impossible boss. He mixes both Geese's and Krauser's moves (how he learned them, I don't know) with his own style. Kyo's team beat him, his ship blew up, and they escaped on helicopter. In KoF95 he comes back, part cyborg. After Kyo's team beats him again (he's actually much easier this time around) he loses control of his body (he can't handle the power of the Orochi) and he explodes. The end. SNK included him as the end boss of KoF98 for some reason, but the game doesn't have a story either...it's just a "dreammatch." Joe - Uh, he's a kick boxer. He's a pervert and quite immature. He's been a friend of Andy's for quite awhile and he seems to have a thing for Mai. That's about it. __________________ Such a pretty house, such a pretty garden No alarms and no surprises... (let me out of here) Posted by Clay on September 18th, 2001 04:02 AM: Chaotic- Soujirotin posted a pretty good roundup, but I’ll expand on some of your questions. quote: Also about capcom. If Shotokan is an evil technique, why can you still play as ryu and not only evil ryu. Is ryu evil now or no, or is he sometimes evil? Why isn't there an evil Ken. Can someone explain to me about akuma's past and what his purpose is. ok, i think thats baout it. Ryu was taught a karate-based form of Ansatsuken. Ansatsuken is general name for any fighting style that is incredibly difficult to master and also incredibly deadly. Gouken didn’t like the killing aspects of the art, so he taught Ryu and Ken a non-lethal version of it. True Ansatsuken is neither good nor evil, just a technique that is used to kill. Using the “killing intent” does not make a person evil, but it does posses the possibility of corrupting the user. Goutetsu developed these techniques, but was not evil. He was in full control of himself and never took on the demonic appearance that Gouki has. Ryu is Ryu. Evil Ryu is a “what if” character created by Cap. USA (Capcom of Japan liked the idea and decided to add him as a hidden character). Evil Ryu shows us what would happen to an intense person like Ryu if he didn’t posses such a virtuous spirit. Through rigorous training, Ryu discovered the true ansatsuken techniques on his own, but he has opted not to use them (Ryu doesn’t fight to kill, he fights to push himself past his limits and to seek enlightenment, hence, he has no use for the killing techniques). The only time Ryu has wavered between good and evil was when Vega (M. Bison) brainwashed him and then proceeded to pump him full of psycho power when he rebelled (as seen in the A3 ending), but in the end Ryu was still able to overcome the evil temptations. There is no Evil Ken simply because Ken is not evil (Duh!). Let me elaborate. Ken never (to my knowledge) discovered the killing techniques and never had the opportunity to be corrupted. Ken accepted Gouken’s teachings as the true techniques and focused his training on making new and “better” versions of these techniques (Shinryu-ken, Shippu-jinrai-kyaku, and the flame on his fist). -Clay __________________ "The world is big! There must be no limit to human strength...." -Ryu Posted by Gimpy on September 18th, 2001 04:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by Clay Chaotic- Soujirotin posted a pretty good roundup, but I’ll expand on some of your questions. Ryu was taught a karate-based form of Ansatsuken. Ansatsuken is general name for any fighting style that is incredibly difficult to master and also incredibly deadly. Gouken didn’t like the killing aspects of the art, so he taught Ryu and Ken a non-lethal version of it. True Ansatsuken is neither good nor evil, just a technique that is used to kill. Using the “killing intent” does not make a person evil, but it does posses the possibility of corrupting the user. Goutetsu developed these techniques, but was not evil. He was in full control of himself and never took on the demonic appearance that Gouki has. Ryu is Ryu. Evil Ryu is a “what if” character created by Cap. USA (Capcom of Japan liked the idea and decided to add him as a hidden character). Evil Ryu shows us what would happen to an intense person like Ryu if he didn’t posses such a virtuous spirit. Through rigorous training, Ryu discovered the true ansatsuken techniques on his own, but he has opted not to use them (Ryu doesn’t fight to kill, he fights to push himself past his limits and to seek enlightenment, hence, he has no use for the killing techniques). The only time Ryu has wavered between good and evil was when Vega (M. Bison) brainwashed him and then proceeded to pump him full of psycho power when he rebelled (as seen in the A3 ending), but in the end Ryu was still able to overcome the evil temptations. There is no Evil Ken simply because Ken is not evil (Duh!). Let me elaborate. Ken never (to my knowledge) discovered the killing techniques and never had the opportunity to be corrupted. Ken accepted Gouken’s teachings as the true techniques and focused his training on making new and “better” versions of these techniques (Shinryu-ken, Shippu-jinrai-kyaku, and the flame on his fist). -Clay Damn! You said the same thing I was thinking. And also if Ken was to become evil he would have to be tortured like in the A.M. when he was kidnapped by Bison. Also I did wish that Terry was Ryu's rival instead of Kyo because their stories are almost the same. __________________ "I will roll you like a phillie blunt and smoke yo bitch ass!!" Eddie Griffith, Double Take. Posted by Fro Boy11 on September 18th, 2001 04:15 AM: Actually, Fatal Fury 1 was a King of Fighters tournament. Geese Howard hosted the tournament, it's been said that he has been the winner of the tourney for 10 years. Anyway, Terry won by knocking Geese out of his tower. Geese survived by inventing the Shippuken in mid-air (This is what I've been told) and it hit a car. The car blew up and some guy next to it got toasted. Geese got scarred up from the explosion too. His bodyguards, Ripper and Hopper, as well as his right hand mand Billy Kane replaced Geese's clothes with the guy in the street and got in the car and left. Since the guy was burnt up they couldn't tell it was Geese (I guess they didn't know anything about checking the teeth back then.) The guy who they thought was Geese died later in the hospital. Fatal Fury 2 was another KOF Tournament, in 1993, this time hosted by Geese's half-brother Wolfgang Krauser. Krauser lost, Terry won. So Terry was the winner of the KOF tournaments in 1992 and 1993. Basically everything said about Rugal was about right. Geese came back in Fatal Fury 3 and beat everyone and aqcuired the 3rd Power scroll. He took the 1st one from Jeff Bogard or Tung Fu Rue (I'm not quite sure). He took the 2nd one from Wolfgang Krauser after Krauser was defeated by Terry. Later Geese became interested in the Orochi Power. During the KOF 95 Tournament while Geese was recovering he sent Billy Kane to investigate the Orochi Power in Iori Yagami. Iori (the loner) beat the hell out of Billy and his other "partner" Eiji Kisaragi (from Art of Fighting 2). Rugal hosted the tournament and he brainwashed Kyo's father Saisyu Kusanagi to kill the Japan Team (Kyo, Benimaru, and Daimon Goro). Rugal used the Orochi Power given to him and destroyed himself because he was not of the Orochi Bloodline. More later... Posted by Clay on September 18th, 2001 05:05 AM: Chaotic Blue: to answer your last question. Warning: A lot of the stuff that I am writing may sound blasphemous or may conflict with the SF storyline, as most people know it. Unfortunately due to some mistakes by Capcom (of Japan) and the complete and utter incompetence of Cap. USA, the actual story to SF has been completely butchered. This is the true (official) story from Capcom of Japan. Keep in mind that this is Capcom that we’re talking about, and that everything is subject to change. Gouki Gouki is the younger brother of Gouken and the star pupil of Goutetsu. Goutetsu taught Gouki and Gouken the ansatsuken art that he created. He also taught them the four most powerful techniques: Hadou-ken, Shoryu-ken, Tatsumaki-senpuu-kyaku, and Shun-goku-satsu. Both Gouken and Gouki were phenomenal students. However, Gouken disliked the killing techniques and when he picked his two students (because of the incredible difficulty of this art, it demands that only two students are taught it at a time and use each other to spar with and further improve their technique) he eliminated the killing aspects. Unlike his brother, Gouki was focused on perfecting the moves as taught by Goutetsu. After years of training, he came back to Goutetsu to prove that he was the superior fighter. In the ensuing battle Goutetsu died the honorable death of a warrior (it is rumored that he was actually happy to see that Gouki had become such an incredible fighter and that his techniques would be passed on to future generations). Unfortunately, Gouki was so obsessed with becoming the “supreme master of the fist” that he was corrupted by his power and ambition. It is not the “killing intent” that changed Gouki, but his obsessive and selfish nature (Ryu fights to improve himself, where as Gouki fights to assert his dominance until someone can defeat him). Because of his extreme and obsessive nature Gouki took on the appearance of a demon (the Japanese believe that a man’s spirit can turn to Oni (Oni is a Japanese demon) when they are controlled by anger, vengeance, or violence). After his battle with Goutetsu, Gouki sought out, the next challenge, his brother. After killing his brother Gouki has tracked down various other fighters (Gen, Vega) to find the one who will push him to his limits and present him with a true challenge. Ryu has potential, but he refuses to use the full extent of his power (for various reasons) and is not ready yet. Gouki wanders the world, training mercilessly and creating new more powerful techniques (Messatsu Gou-rasen, Kongou Kokuretsuzan). He still seeks the ultimate challenge, knowing full well that with it he will find peace in death. __________________ "The world is big! There must be no limit to human strength...." -Ryu Posted by Clay on September 18th, 2001 05:14 AM: Note: Gouki really isn’t evil, he just live by the harsh code of a warrior. He doesn't kill everybody he sees, he just searches for other worthy fighters. When fighting other warriors, or anybody foolish enough to challenge him, he gives his all, often resulting in his opponent’s death. He doesn’t derive any pleasure by killing people; he believes that a true warrior never holds back (a very unforgiving lifestyle). Contrary to popular belief, Gouki doesn’t want to turn Ryu evil. He knows that Ryu has the skill and talent (as well as determination) to defeat him (Gouki) so he encourages Ryu to use the true methods of ansatsuken or killing technique. Whether Ryu turns “evil” or not is of little consequence to Gouki. -Clay __________________ "The world is big! There must be no limit to human strength...." -Ryu Posted by Clay on September 18th, 2001 05:23 AM: quote: Originally posted by Gimpy Damn! You said the same thing I was thinking. And also if Ken was to become evil he would have to be tortured like in the A.M. when he was kidnapped by Bison. Also I did wish that Terry was Ryu's rival instead of Kyo because their stories are almost the same. Hey, this isn't the first time that one of us has said what the other was thinking. Great minds think alike, correct? About Terry and Ryu. They should, nay, must be rivals. They both lead a vagabond's life and are always training. I think that they would develop a mutual respect for each other no matter who would win (my money is on Ryu). Their characters have too much in common not to be rivals. This is a huge oversight. Another excellent point Gimpy. -Clay __________________ "The world is big! There must be no limit to human strength...." -Ryu Posted by TS on September 18th, 2001 05:32 AM: Clay: You know, I have SFZ3 for my Saturn...and even though I can't read kanji/katakana/whatever, I know there have been some story edits, some of which I probably don't appreciate. Just have to hope that it was nothing major. Anyway, I believe Gouki's teleport is called "Ashura Warp" or "Ashura Senkuu." As I understand it, an ashura is basically a fighting demon/ghost...so while I do understand that all of his moves are supposed to sound cool, I think that does suggest that Gouki may be a little more supernatural in nature than what you just posted. Not saying you're wrong or anything, just seems that Capcom has strayed away from Gouki's normalcy as a human being. __________________ -ß a r Posted by Gimpy on September 18th, 2001 05:59 AM: quote: Originally posted by Clay Hey, this isn't the first time that one of us has said what the other was thinking. Great minds think alike, correct? About Terry and Ryu. They should, nay, must be rivals. They both lead a vagabond's life and are always training. I think that they would develop a mutual respect for each other no matter who would win (my money is on Ryu). Their characters have too much in common not to be rivals. This is a huge oversight. Another excellent point Gimpy. -Clay Yeah we do. They both have the same type of personalities and character traits. For the people who might not know, they both were introduced to martial arts at a young age. They both have masters who were like fathers to them(I hear that Jeff was Terry and Andy's adopted father). They both had sparring partners that are like brothers to them. They both had their sensei killed by someone that was close or connected to them, Geese being Jeff's murderer and Akuma being Gouken's murderer, bring out their true warrior spirit. Both of their rivals want to prove that they are equal to them. And both of them took in students that have the ability to become great fighters. With Kyo I see him with the arrogance and cockiness of Ken. I persoanlly wished that SNK had pushed the FF series like it did with KoF. __________________ "I will roll you like a phillie blunt and smoke yo bitch ass!!" Eddie Griffith, Double Take. Posted by CyntalanMaelstrom on September 18th, 2001 06:18 AM: I'd just like to know one thing, since this topic is sprung up.... Just what the hell IS that damn rope between Iori's ankles? __________________ Cyntalan Maelstrom -Don't EVER mention that psycho tennis mime or that pizza boy's name in my presence!!! *Quote from Robert Todd* N64 and Super Smash Bros. - $130. Being a cheap ass. - Priceless. Posted by Clay on September 18th, 2001 06:51 AM: TS: Yeah the SFA3 storyline is really screwed up, but Capcom of Japan has deemed some of it official. Ryu’s ending does happen in conjunction with some of the other characters. The bulk of the storyline follows a combination of Ryu’s, Sakura’s, Sagat’s, and Guile’s endings with Ken thrown into the mix. From what I’ve heard Ryu is eventually under Vega’s control (think Vega’s SFA2 ending). Ken and Sakura actually fight Vega while Sagat fights the brainwashed Ryu. Ryu then comes to his senses and defeats Vega who retreats to the Psycho drive. From here on Guile’s ending takes over and Charlie actually dies. Ashura Senkuu: I’ve also heard that this move was named after a demon/ghost. I don’t really know anything about Ashura, but if anybody has any information on it I’d like to hear it. quote: I think that does suggest that Gouki may be a little more supernatural in nature than what you just posted. Not saying you're wrong or anything, just seems that Capcom has strayed away from Gouki's normalcy as a human being. Goutetsu definitely taught Gouki his ansatsuken style and I’m also pretty sure that Gouken is his brother. That and the part about a human’s spirit/ki turning them into a demon (Oni) seem to fit Gouki pretty well. That said, I didn’t mean to make him seem fallible or anything. Sorry if I gave off this impression. I have said it before and I’ll always stand by the fact that Gouki is levels above any other street fighter (possible exceptions: Gill, Oro). He is, imo, untouchable; easily the dominant force in the SF universe. TS: I agree with you that Gouki has supernatural abilities and at the very least is superhuman (SF3: He splits Ayer’s rock with his fist and then is standing on the sub under the ocean depth’s (3000m?) wearing only hi gi). I just think that Gouki has human ties. I also think that when he finds the ultimate challenge that he is looking for he will die. In his SFA2 ending, Gouki meditates on what it is he is actually doing (searching for strong opponents on this “mortal plane” he meets Gen, Vega, and Ryu). He ends his thoughts saying that he “will be the next to die.” He knows that even for him death is inescapable. I’m not saying that he will die soon, but more likely in the far off future. I have tried to be as accurate as I can be given the lack of material on this subject. TS: What is your take on the Gouki-Ryu relationship? I mentioned that I don’t think that Gouki wants Ryu to be evil, but that he wants him to go all out. My best argument here is that if Gouki really wants Ryu to turn “evil” then he is going about it all wrong. Simply put the best way Gouki could have achieved this goal would have been to kill Ken. Not only would this sadden and enrage Ryu, but it also eliminates his only tie to society and the rest of the world. Without Ken, Ryu is way more likely to use the killing intent. If you (TS) have any opinions about this topic I would love to hear them. A different and educated point of view is always welcome. __________________ "The world is big! There must be no limit to human strength...." -Ryu Posted by kusanagi on September 18th, 2001 06:56 AM: CyntalanMaelstrom I think it derives from the british punk scene in the 70's.. which was stylish at the time. __________________ aahhh... KURAI YAGARE!!! Posted by Clay on September 18th, 2001 07:01 AM: Gimpy: Now that you have brought all of their similarities out in the open, I think that anyone should be hard pressed to disagree with us. Also, for the record, I prefer most of the FF cast to the KoF one. I'm not bad-mouthing KoF, I just prefer Fatal Fury and Garou. Quick question though: Whom do you see as Ryu's student? I hope it's not Sakura. __________________ "The world is big! There must be no limit to human strength...." -Ryu Posted by ninjabastard on September 18th, 2001 07:04 AM: quote: Originally posted by CyntalanMaelstrom I'd just like to know one thing, since this topic is sprung up.... Just what the hell IS that damn rope between Iori's ankles? It's a late 80's early 90's rocker/punker thing. Iori has his own band so it makes sense. Posted by Clay on September 18th, 2001 07:40 AM: I was going to say this before, but I decided to put it off until later. Now that TS brought up the subject of Gouki and the supernatural, I think I’ll put it up anyway. Many people see Gouki’s demonic appearance and assume that it represents his “evil” soul or aura, but I think that it is a misinterpretation. I’ve already stated that I don’t think that Gouki is truly evil, but that his form is a result of his obsessive and rather violent behavior (as well as his intense training and incredible ki level). Most importantly, I think that his appearance is supposed to portray his immense power and supernatural abilities. By depicting him in this manner Capcom separates him from all of the other characters and is able to convey the thought that he is above what any normal human can do. Time and time again Gouki has pushed himself past human limitations: He can teleport, create powerful waves of energy (ki), destroy islands (Goukentou), level continents (Ayer’s), and survive where no man could dream of (underwater). Also, the symbol that appears on Gouki’s back (Ten) is often translated as heaven or sky. More accurately, given the context, I have been told that it means “beyond human”. I have also heard that Japanese legends say that he who bears the ten symbol is immortal. One of the reasons why I like the SF story so much is because it goes right along with some of my personal philosophies. I’d like to get into this, but it’s late and I have school and work to attend tomorrow (or rather later today). If people keep posting I would love to keep talking about this subject. -Clay __________________ "The world is big! There must be no limit to human strength...." -Ryu Posted by Galactic on September 18th, 2001 08:15 AM: Ken would make a damn cool evil character. Reason Ken's style is not quite as developed as Ryu's? Look at all the movies and series and stuff. What's Ryu doing? Constantly training. Seeking more fighters. Fighting every chance he gets. What's Ken doing? Driving around, having fun, basically enjoying (married) life, while fighting (and winning) a few weak tournies here and there. Now, they're skills are STILL pretty close to equal. Telling from that, Galactic would say that Ken has the higher potential as a fighter, but Ryu has the bigger drive and motivation to be the best he could be, which is why he is currently the stronger of the two, while Ken is still faster. (And more stylish, imo) Hell, if Ryu and Ken's lifestyles were reversed, I honestly believe Ken would be a better fighter than Ryu, Gouken, and even Gouki. He would take the best that Gouken would have to teach him, and build more upon it, as he did by developing his flaming fist, and his Shippu-Jinrai-Kyaku, an entirely different attack, while RYu basically has the SAME exact moves just stronger variations on it. (Shin-Shoryuken, Shinkuu-Hadoken, Shin-Tetsumaki, etc.) Ken also has some strange abilities not totally recognized. Take the movie for example. Near the end, Bison breaks his legs and does tons of damage to Ken and flings him like 50 ft. into the air into a ditch. What does Ken do? As soon as he regains consciousness, he meditates. A blue aura surrounds him, and next screen, we see him back at 100% fighting energy, as proven as he and Ryu go on to beat M.Bison together. What, does he have some magical healing ability? He had a broken leg, for god sakes, he couldn;t stand properly... next shot he doing tetsumaki on Bison's face? I believe Ken has more raw fighting potential than any other char in the Capcom universe. He's just a lazy bitch. __________________ ^_-; Posted by CyntalanMaelstrom on September 18th, 2001 08:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by ninjabastard It's a late 80's early 90's rocker/punker thing. Iori has his own band so it makes sense. That's another thing that bugs me... I just can't picture Iori in a band.... it's like trying to picture Schwartzenegger in a musical.... __________________ Cyntalan Maelstrom -Don't EVER mention that psycho tennis mime or that pizza boy's name in my presence!!! *Quote from Robert Todd* N64 and Super Smash Bros. - $130. Being a cheap ass. - Priceless. Posted by ninjabastard on September 18th, 2001 01:01 PM: I think Kyo's funnier. He's a 21 year old in high school. Hates school alot. Gets Shingo to do his homework. And, treats Shingo like shit. Posted by trucutru on September 18th, 2001 02:58 PM: Well, Kyo is in fact quite a Jackass. In KOF 97 he was one of the few characters that didn't give a stock to anyone (In KOF 97 when a character lost an he was friendly with the next char they gave him/her an extra stock) he was unfriendly to the whole cast. He also makes Shingo do his homework and makes him buy him food, etc. BTW, Shingo's girlfriend crossdresses as Kyo, is Shingo sick or what? Kyo's girlfriend (Yuki, was she killed or not?) cooks, irons his clothes, etc. for him. He also dislikes his team-mates and usually calls Benimaru Girlie-Boy. Since KOF 99 he is not a part of any team. Iori, well, he is not an evil guy. He's just nuts ... And has a rock band, and trashed Billy and Eiji, Mature and Vice and the stage of Yashiro's rock band which was not very wise since you don't want Yashiro & Co. after you cuz they are the real evil guys and stuff. So, in short: Kyo <---- Jackass. Benimaru <---- Womanizer that looks very, very gay. Daimon <---- Daimon. Iori <---- Nutso, he thinks he is a pacifist. Yashiro <---- He needs to be back! damn it! Takuma <---- Senile old fool that disguises as the almighty "Mr-Karate" Father of Ryo and Yuri, which explains a lot. Eiji, Billy, Mature & Vice <---- Target practice. Geese <---- It's Geese, G.e.e.s.e. Don't call me Duck-boy! Whip <---- Mmmmh.... Whip! So cute. So, SNK's stories have lots of extra details -fanservice- which are mostly pointless but are fun to know. Is a shame that the last two KOFs have had such lame stories and characters: Foxy, Roxy and Candy? give me a break! Takuma deflecting a beam that was going to destroy a whole city with his Haohshikoken? Yeah right, He is superman! What's next? Choi and Chang exchanging bodies?.... Uh, never mind. Hey look at me! I'm babling. __________________ - Trucutru Posted by Gimpy on September 18th, 2001 03:42 PM: quote: Originally posted by Galactic Ken would make a damn cool evil character. Reason Ken's style is not quite as developed as Ryu's? Look at all the movies and series and stuff. What's Ryu doing? Constantly training. Seeking more fighters. Fighting every chance he gets. What's Ken doing? Driving around, having fun, basically enjoying (married) life, while fighting (and winning) a few weak tournies here and there. Now, they're skills are STILL pretty close to equal. Telling from that, Galactic would say that Ken has the higher potential as a fighter, but Ryu has the bigger drive and motivation to be the best he could be, which is why he is currently the stronger of the two, while Ken is still faster. (And more stylish, imo) Hell, if Ryu and Ken's lifestyles were reversed, I honestly believe Ken would be a better fighter than Ryu, Gouken, and even Gouki. He would take the best that Gouken would have to teach him, and build more upon it, as he did by developing his flaming fist, and his Shippu-Jinrai-Kyaku, an entirely different attack, while RYu basically has the SAME exact moves just stronger variations on it. (Shin-Shoryuken, Shinkuu-Hadoken, Shin-Tetsumaki, etc.) Ken also has some strange abilities not totally recognized. Take the movie for example. Near the end, Bison breaks his legs and does tons of damage to Ken and flings him like 50 ft. into the air into a ditch. What does Ken do? As soon as he regains consciousness, he meditates. A blue aura surrounds him, and next screen, we see him back at 100% fighting energy, as proven as he and Ryu go on to beat M.Bison together. What, does he have some magical healing ability? He had a broken leg, for god sakes, he couldn;t stand properly... next shot he doing tetsumaki on Bison's face? I believe Ken has more raw fighting potential than any other char in the Capcom universe. He's just a lazy bitch. Well you also have to remember that Ryu fought Ken and Bison and then teamed up on Bison and not once get tired so that kinda shows that he is Stronger and got more stamina than Ken. Also Bison Held Ryu up in the air about a good 30 feet and dropped him and he still got to fight. __________________ "I will roll you like a phillie blunt and smoke yo bitch ass!!" Eddie Griffith, Double Take. Posted by soujiroten on September 18th, 2001 04:18 PM: Actually, Ryu has more fighting potential than Ken... If you're going to hold the animes as canon, you should watch the SF Zero episodes. When Ryu goes Satsui no Hadou, he winds up blowing up buildings and the like. Ken's good, no doubt, and capcom always takes balance issues into account, but have you looked at the recent games? Ryu's almost always higher tier than Ken. Hmm... --SJ Posted by Chaotic Blue on September 18th, 2001 04:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by soujiroten Actually, Ryu has more fighting potential than Ken... If you're going to hold the animes as canon, you should watch the SF Zero episodes. When Ryu goes Satsui no Hadou, he winds up blowing up buildings and the like. Ken's good, no doubt, and capcom always takes balance issues into account, but have you looked at the recent games? Ryu's almost always higher tier than Ken. Hmm... --SJ ... not quite. ken is actually higher tier in CvS2. Also thanks alot guys, I really appreciate your answers! Now lets not let this thread die! C. Blue __________________ Typical James Games Tournament. Crazy Gideon: "Peter Rosas to machine 1!" Me: "Dude he's already playing" Crazy Gideon: "I know, he is disqualified. Next will be Mike Hunt vrs Mike Hawk." ... "Mike Hawk was taken from Mike Hunt, Mike Hunt is the winner!" Posted by Forte on September 18th, 2001 05:48 PM: Clay: With all that said How do you explane Shin Gouki WCK: Iori has befirended Kyo of lates (more or less like Ruy and Ken firendship)! But can you tell me more about K' and Kula Diamond! __________________ "A warrior's personal battle is always the HARDEST!" -Ryku Hein, White Ninja of Kara-Tur "He who hesitates is lost." -Forte(Megaman/Rockman 7, Snes) play my theme song! Posted by soujiroten on September 18th, 2001 06:35 PM: Note that I said 'almost always'. Regarding Shin Gouki, from what I pieced together, that's kinda like his 'advanced' form. It's what he gets when he feels 'high' from a fight. It's kinda like how ryu goes 'satsui no hadou' when he gets really really aggravated. --SJ Posted by kusanagi on September 18th, 2001 07:21 PM: K' was thought at first as Krizalid's clone, but as it turns out it was Krizalid who was K's clone. K's who has ammesia and can't remember his past is searching for answers, and was infused with Kyo Kusanagi's inherited flame abilities by Nests. K' and Maxima are NESTS operatives with unknown motives at the time. in 2000 K' finds out that Whip is his sister, which she kinda revealed in 99 when you beat the game with the Ikari Team. she was emotional towards Krizalid at his dying moments who she thought was her brother, but had found out that it was a lie. I think she is also a member of NESTS in some way. Her ending in 2000 is kinda mysterious as well, at Zero's death side there is some conversation without text then she cries so we have no idea what she's/he's saying. She also leaves the Ikari team (i think to join K' in 2001). As for Kula.. She is a NESTS operative dubbed Anti-K' supposedly. With ice powers and moves that are supposed to counter K's. She is sent in to stop Zero from using the Zero Cannon as Zero is using NESTS as a front to obtain the Cannon (probably for world domination purposes). It looks from the games that Kula is a normal girl (although from looks she is kinda anemic) that can activate her ice powers. In the end of 2000 she completes her mission and stops Zero by destroying the Cannon and falls to earth to her death, but she is saved by Candy. Candy and android friend of her's is destroyed in the process however. __________________ aahhh... KURAI YAGARE!!! Posted by Clay on September 18th, 2001 07:44 PM: Galactic: I’m going to have to back up Gimpy on this one. First off, I love the SF2 anime, but it isn’t canon to the SF universe. A lot of ideas from it made their way into the Alpha storyline though. About Ken’s “special powers”: Up to that point he had been tortured, brainwashed, and blasted with psycho power. After all of this, he was unable to control his body properly (he had just regained control over his mind). His leg isn’t broken; he has just lost coordination of his limbs. He then proceeds to position himself in that stance and regains his focus and controls his ki. This allows him to get rid of any remnant psycho power, figure out what is going on, and regain his coordination. In case you missed it, Ryu uses the same stance earlier in the movie when he is practicing his Shoryu-ken. This stance is a means of clearing ones mind and achieving maximum concentration. About the Ken and Ryu argument: I hate talking about it (Gimpy knows what I mean) because it has been answered so many times by Capcom. Ken doesn’t have more potential because of his lack of training (I say lack only to compare him to Ryu. In actuality, Ken trains and hones his techniques quite rigorously). Ken and Ryu were taught the same art and both mastered it. In this sense, they were equals because they had taken their style as far as it could go. Ryu carries a slight edge on Ken because he is solely devoted to self-improvement while Ken has a more relaxed attitude (this is true during the Alpha series, but 3rd strike does a pretty good job of ending the rivalry. By the time SF3 is over, Ryu has far surpassed Ken and is ready for new challenges that will push him beyond any other human. He will eventually reach Oro and Gouki like levels.). Because of his intense training, Ryu actually has more potential than Ken. Not only does he have more experience against various techniques, but also his training allows him to see things on another level. He notices weaknesses and openings that no other man is able to see. About a one on one comparison of their moves: Ryu still comes out favorably. Ryu’s Shoryu-ken is just plain stronger and the Shin Shoryu-ken owns the Shinryu-ken in terms of damage, invincibility, and juggle potential. People also forget that Ryu can also control fire (Shakunetsu Hadou-ken). Ryu also has control over electricity (Denjinn), and wind/vacuum energy (Shinkuu). Ryu’s ki is far more powerful and precise than Ken’s and his Tatsumaki-senpuu-kyaku packs more punch than Ken’s. The Shinkuu version is out of the Shippu-Jinrai-Kyaku’s league. One more note: Ryu is holding back when he fights. He has knowledge of far more powerful techniques but opts not to use them because he doesn’t want to obliterate his opponent. I could go on, but I’m busy today. I'll try to keep posting later if possible. -Clay __________________ "The world is big! There must be no limit to human strength...." -Ryu Posted by Clay on September 18th, 2001 07:50 PM: Forte: I have to make this quick. Keep posting if you want to continue this conversation! I hear what SJ said a lot, but I have a somewhat different take on this. I mentioned before that Gouki is always holding the vast majority of his power back, even when he is in battle. Shin Gouki (True Gouki) is supposed to represent Gouki displaying his full (true ability) power (although poorly done, imo, “True Gouki” would kill most Sf'ers with little effort in minimal time). In A3 Evil Ryu fights Shin Gouki as his boss, which goes right along with what I’ve been saying (Gouki wants Ryu to stop holding back so that he (Gouki) is forced to use all of his power). Think of it in terms of ST. In this game Gouki is literally a god. He is not only unbeatable, but also untouchable. Shin Gouki is supposed to show how superior Gouki really is (increased damage, speed, and comboability). For the sake of balance, Capcom has to severely weaken Shin Gouki so that he doesn’t dominate the game, which is exactly what he would do. Theoretically, Shin Gouki gets raped by Capcom (in terms of gameplay) worse than “regular” Gouki. __________________ "The world is big! There must be no limit to human strength...." -Ryu Posted by ImMature on September 18th, 2001 08:00 PM: quote: Originally posted by trucutru Well, Kyo is in fact quite a Jackass. In KOF 97 he was one of the few characters that didn't give a stock to anyone (In KOF 97 when a character lost an he was friendly with the next char they gave him/her an extra stock) he was unfriendly to the whole cast. He also makes Shingo do his homework and makes him buy him food, etc. BTW, Shingo's girlfriend crossdresses as Kyo, is Shingo sick or what? Kyo's girlfriend (Yuki, was she killed or not?) cooks, irons his clothes, etc. for him. He also dislikes his team-mates and usually calls Benimaru Girlie-Boy. Since KOF 99 he is not a part of any team. LOL. So true! Plus he (Kyo) is 1 of the few chars that won't team-assist anyone neither, along with the likes of Yamazaki and Iori. He's just the cocky bastard that every arcade player wants to be Just for the sake of it (and cause I'm bored) I'll continue trucutru's short descriptions of the KOF cast... * Ryo --> Takuma's son and current Kyokugenryuu masta * Robert --> Takuma's student and only Spanish representative in KOF (hint: don't argue with me on this 1) * Yuri --> Ryo's sis and Robert's GF (well, sorta...) * Ralf & Clark --> Overpowered military guys from Ikari Warriors (the shooter) * Leona --> Orochi gal, current leader of the IW team * Whip --> Krizalid's sis * Heidern --> True chief of the IW team and Leona's adoptive father. His real family was killed by Rugal * Athena --> J-Pop singer chick with psychic powers (go figure!) * Kensou --> Comic relief kid who has a big crush on Athena * Chin Gentsai --> The Drunken Masta and God of KOF!! * Bao --> Stoopid kid adopted (sorta) by Chin * Kim Kaphwan --> Korea's #1 superhero that fights for Justice and all that crap * Jhun --> Kim's rival (sorta) * Chang & Choi --> Ex-con guys, Kim keeps trying to reform 'em but to no avail * Yamazaki --> Yakuza psycho * B. Mary --> Cop for rent and Terry's GF (sorta) * Billy Kane --> Geese's henchman #1 * USA Sport Teams --> Losers. Nuff said EDIT: No, Yuki (Kyo's GF) wasn't killed in '97 she's supposed to be alive and well __________________ ExitWindowsEx(EWX_SHUTDOWN,0) ==> best Windows API function EVER "bring some tight azz bitches and watch me's power grows exponentially" - GN Posted by CgHuReInS on September 18th, 2001 08:02 PM: Yeah, Shotokan is actually a form of karate. You can learn it, if you want. So in and of itself, it isn't evil. It's just their style. __________________ [insert sig here...] Posted by Drunkengameplayer on September 18th, 2001 09:19 PM: quote: Originally posted by soujiroten There's a very good story FAQ on www.gamefaqs.com by Kailu Lantis about the story behind the SNK fighters... Would you please post a link to the actual faq since I can't find it..... Please? __________________ Don't tell your face, but i'm about to ROCK IT!!!! Posted by soujiroten on September 18th, 2001 10:30 PM: Here it is. It's got a few grammatical errors and the like, but is the most complete rundown of the KoF storyline I've seen. http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcad...hters_story.txt enjoy. --SJ Posted by Drunkengameplayer on September 18th, 2001 11:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by soujiroten Here it is. It's got a few grammatical errors and the like, but is the most complete rundown of the KoF storyline I've seen. http://db.gamefaqs.com/coinop/arcad...hters_story.txt enjoy. --SJ Much thanks. You are now officialy on my list of top ten cool people. __________________ Don't tell your face, but i'm about to ROCK IT!!!! Posted by Gimpy on September 18th, 2001 11:36 PM: quote: Originally posted by Clay Galactic: I’m going to have to back up Gimpy on this one. First off, I love the SF2 anime, but it isn’t canon to the SF universe. A lot of ideas from it made their way into the Alpha storyline though. About Ken’s “special powers”: Up to that point he had been tortured, brainwashed, and blasted with psycho power. After all of this, he was unable to control his body properly (he had just regained control over his mind). His leg isn’t broken; he has just lost coordination of his limbs. He then proceeds to position himself in that stance and regains his focus and controls his ki. This allows him to get rid of any remnant psycho power, figure out what is going on, and regain his coordination. In case you missed it, Ryu uses the same stance earlier in the movie when he is practicing his Shoryu-ken. This stance is a means of clearing ones mind and achieving maximum concentration. About the Ken and Ryu argument: I hate talking about it (Gimpy knows what I mean) because it has been answered so many times by Capcom. Ken doesn’t have more potential because of his lack of training (I say lack only to compare him to Ryu. In actuality, Ken trains and hones his techniques quite rigorously). Ken and Ryu were taught the same art and both mastered it. In this sense, they were equals because they had taken their style as far as it could go. Ryu carries a slight edge on Ken because he is solely devoted to self-improvement while Ken has a more relaxed attitude (this is true during the Alpha series, but 3rd strike does a pretty good job of ending the rivalry. By the time SF3 is over, Ryu has far surpassed Ken and is ready for new challenges that will push him beyond any other human. He will eventually reach Oro and Gouki like levels.). Because of his intense training, Ryu actually has more potential than Ken. Not only does he have more experience against various techniques, but also his training allows him to see things on another level. He notices weaknesses and openings that no other man is able to see. About a one on one comparison of their moves: Ryu still comes out favorably. Ryu’s Shoryu-ken is just plain stronger and the Shin Shoryu-ken owns the Shinryu-ken in terms of damage, invincibility, and juggle potential. People also forget that Ryu can also control fire (Shakunetsu Hadou-ken). Ryu also has control over electricity (Denjinn), and wind/vacuum energy (Shinkuu). Ryu’s ki is far more powerful and precise than Ken’s and his Tatsumaki-senpuu-kyaku packs more punch than Ken’s. The Shinkuu version is out of the Shippu-Jinrai-Kyaku’s league. One more note: Ryu is holding back when he fights. He has knowledge of far more powerful techniques but opts not to use them because he doesn’t want to obliterate his opponent. I could go on, but I’m busy today. I'll try to keep posting later if possible. -Clay Clay, I'm glad that I found someone who thinks like me. I know exactly what you mean about the Ken and Ryu argument. Aslo alot of people play characters because they may have more or better looking moves than others. That's the reason why Ken and Akuma seem a little more popular than Ryu. But even the one with the less or less flashy moves are usually a top choice with skilled players. A prime example of this is in Tekken Tag, A team of Kazuya and Bruce are devastating as hell. And the have the less moves than any of the characters. But I also think people based characters of style and their personalities too. __________________ "I will roll you like a phillie blunt and smoke yo bitch ass!!" Eddie Griffith, Double Take. Posted by Forte on September 18th, 2001 11:48 PM: quote: Originally posted by Clay Forte: I have to make this quick. Keep posting if you want to continue this conversation! I hear what SJ said a lot, but I have a somewhat different take on this. I mentioned before that Gouki is always holding the vast majority of his power back, even when he is in battle. Shin Gouki (True Gouki) is supposed to represent Gouki displaying his full (true ability) power (although poorly done, imo, “True Gouki” would kill most Sf'ers with little effort in minimal time). In A3 Evil Ryu fights Shin Gouki as his boss, which goes right along with what I’ve been saying (Gouki wants Ryu to stop holding back so that he (Gouki) is forced to use all of his power). Think of it in terms of ST. In this game Gouki is literally a god. He is not only unbeatable, but also untouchable. Shin Gouki is supposed to show how superior Gouki really is (increased damage, speed, and comboability). For the sake of balance, Capcom has to severely weaken Shin Gouki so that he doesn’t dominate the game, which is exactly what he would do. Theoretically, Shin Gouki gets raped by Capcom (in terms of gameplay) worse than “regular” Gouki. But with that said Gouki can't be said to be using his "all" as you said before in different word, so what you are saying is that Gouki is holding back like Ryu! "Fool, my power can't be stop, Kill me before I go full out on you!" -Gouki Hein, Dark Shoninisu warror of Kara-Tar __________________ "A warrior's personal battle is always the HARDEST!" -Ryku Hein, White Ninja of Kara-Tur "He who hesitates is lost." -Forte(Megaman/Rockman 7, Snes) play my theme song! Posted by ProTect on September 19th, 2001 02:32 AM: SOME FUN FACTS ABOUT SNK CHARACTERS -In order to avoid exceeding the post limit (which I did yesterday, thus my delay in replying to this), I will be adding stuff by editing rather than reposting (unless I have plenty of posts left and the topic needs a bump ) - There was a joke about calling Geese "Duck-boy." This may be a reference to the fact that the same guy who has voiced Geese for SNK for the past few years also does the voice for Duck King DUCK KING (one of the more popular would-be secret characters for CvS2): SNK's Dee Jay (pre-dates Dee Jay, actually, so you could say Dee Jay is Capcom's Duck King ) Has appeared in every Fatal Fury game except FF2 and FF3; also is a striker in KOF 2000 A good friend (and rival) of Terry. Thinks Mai is cute. RYO SAKAZAKI: Fighting Master! (uses Kyokugen Karate) Has appeared in every AOF game; has appeared in FF Special and FF: Wild Ambition; has appeared in every King of Fighters game (Art of Fighting Team captain) Hates it when his father Takuma plays Mr.Karate. Presumably hates Geese (who brainwashed his father and made him kidnap Yuri to start the events depicted in AOF1). Brother of Yuri. A good friend (and rival) of Terry and Robert Garcia (one of the sponsors of CvS 1 and 2). Along with Robert, he was the inspiration for Dan. KIM KAPHWAN: Superman of Tae Kwon Do Has appeared in every FF game exept FF1 and FF3; has appeared in every King of Fighters game (Korea Team captain) Hates evil in general. A good friend (and rival) of Terry. Has two kids, Kim Dong Hwan and Kim Jae Hoon, who appear as playable characters in Garou: MOTW. KING: Androgynous Muay Thai Marvel Has appeared in the first two Art of Fighting games; has appeared in every KOF game (Women's Team - KOF 94 to 99, Art of Fighting Team - KOF 2000) A good friend (and rival) of Ryo, Mai, and Yuri. Has a little brother, Jan, who first appeared in her AOF2 ending. VICE: Orochi Servant Has appeared in KOF 95 (not as a fighter), 96, and 98; also is a striker in KOF 2000 (with Mature) She's a pure-blooded Orochi descendant, so presumably she hates everyone and everything. Served as Rugal's secretary around the time of KOF 95 (she was actually spying on him for Orochi). It is believed she was killed by Iori when he went into the Riot of the Blood after KOF 96 (98 is a dream match, and all KOF 2000 strikers are unofficial in the storyline). RAIDEN: Hulking Wrestler Has appeared in FF1 and FF:WA (as Raiden) and FF2 and FF Special (as Big Bear) He wears the mask so he can be as brutal as he wants to be. When he was Big Bear, he tried to impress Terry (wonder why they don't have an intro?). __________________ Those aren't children. They're packets of cream cheese. - Space Ghost Roll over, Liberty. -Chevy Chase as Gerald Ford "The OutKastz" Number 9... Number 9... Number 9... Posted by NinjaTurtle on September 19th, 2001 04:06 AM: quote: Originally posted by ImMature * Whip --> Krizalid's sis Nope Whip is K's sis. Watch the Kof99 ending of the Ikari warriors. __________________ Are you crazy? Posted by ImMature on September 19th, 2001 04:35 AM: quote: Originally posted by NinjaTurtle Nope Whip is K's sis. Watch the Kof99 ending of the Ikari warriors. Yeah you're right. It's hard to tell with all those clones LOL __________________ ExitWindowsEx(EWX_SHUTDOWN,0) ==> best Windows API function EVER "bring some tight azz bitches and watch me's power grows exponentially" - GN Posted by ninjabastard on September 19th, 2001 04:56 AM: quote: Originally posted by trucutru Well, Kyo is in fact quite a Jackass. In KOF 97 he was one of the few characters that didn't give a stock to anyone (In KOF 97 when a character lost an he was friendly with the next char they gave him/her an extra stock) he was unfriendly to the whole cast. He also makes Shingo do his homework and makes him buy him food, etc. BTW, Shingo's girlfriend crossdresses as Kyo, is Shingo sick or what? Kyo's girlfriend (Yuki, was she killed or not?) cooks, irons his clothes, etc. for him. He also dislikes his team-mates and usually calls Benimaru Girlie-Boy. Since KOF 99 he is not a part of any team. Iori, well, he is not an evil guy. He's just nuts ... And has a rock band, and trashed Billy and Eiji, Mature and Vice and the stage of Yashiro's rock band which was not very wise since you don't want Yashiro & Co. after you cuz they are the real evil guys and stuff. So, in short: Kyo <---- Jackass. Benimaru <---- Womanizer that looks very, very gay. Daimon <---- Daimon. Iori <---- Nutso, he thinks he is a pacifist. Yashiro <---- He needs to be back! damn it! Takuma <---- Senile old fool that disguises as the almighty "Mr-Karate" Father of Ryo and Yuri, which explains a lot. Eiji, Billy, Mature & Vice <---- Target practice. Geese <---- It's Geese, G.e.e.s.e. Don't call me Duck-boy! Whip <---- Mmmmh.... Whip! So cute. So, SNK's stories have lots of extra details -fanservice- which are mostly pointless but are fun to know. Is a shame that the last two KOFs have had such lame stories and characters: Foxy, Roxy and Candy? give me a break! Takuma deflecting a beam that was going to destroy a whole city with his Haohshikoken? Yeah right, He is superman! What's next? Choi and Chang exchanging bodies?.... Uh, never mind. Hey look at me! I'm babling. Actully Kyo gave a stock to Shingo. And that's the only character that gives Shigo a stock. Yeah Kyo a lazy ass. But, he does have a good heart. He's just joking around. Keep in mind he's doing a favor by training Shingo. Shingo begged him to. So, Kyo made him cook, clean, do his homework, and stuff. That's what I would do. I guess that's why I like him and some people don't. He's just naturly good at fighting. Just pure ability. While Terry and Ryu trained their asses off. Whatever I like Kyo. But, everyone has their own opianin. Posted by trucutru on September 19th, 2001 03:31 PM: quote: Originally posted by ninjabastard Actully Kyo gave a stock to Shingo. And that's the only character that gives Shigo a stock. Yeah Kyo a lazy ass. But, he does have a good heart. He's just joking around. Keep in mind he's doing a favor by training Shingo. Shingo begged him to. So, Kyo made him cook, clean, do his homework, and stuff. That's what I would do. I guess that's why I like him and some people don't. He's just naturly good at fighting. Just pure ability. While Terry and Ryu trained their asses off. Whatever I like Kyo. But, everyone has their own opianin. I'll go play KOF 97 to be 100% sure but I don't think Kyo gave stocks to ANYone. Not even Shingo. I don't dislike Kyo's personality. It's quite refreshing that the main character is not a goodie-two-shoes or some boring martial artist. Have you seen the picture in KOF 99 where he and the two clones are bossing Shingo around? Hilarious. On the other hand, as a competitive character, I freaking hate his frogging, overprioritized ass __________________ - Trucutru Posted by BooBoo on September 19th, 2001 03:48 PM: quote: Originally posted by trucutru Have you seen the picture in KOF 99 where he and the two clones are bossing Shingo around? Hilarious. where is this picture, it sounds hella funny! does a website have it somewhere? Posted by Lantis on September 19th, 2001 03:51 PM: *blows whistle* The hell?! WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO MY BIKE? Ahhh...some KOF quelms, I see... Boo Boo? What the hell? Are you like...from the KOF ML? So, what's the deal? Aaaaaany questions for me? BTW, if you actually think about the real Orochi legend and what's going on in KOF.... *Kusanagi was the legendary sword used to slain the eight-headed Orochi dragon. In KOF, Kyo is the chosen one to put away the Orochi power once and for all. I think his QCF x 2 + P super has some weird name, kinda like "The Sword of the Kusanagi", which kinda deals with the actual legend. Kyo did deal with Orochi at the end of KOF '97, but not without the help of... *Yagami. It was said that the eight-headed Orochi dragon got drunk and was put to sleep by drinking eight cups of wines, offered by the Yagami, thus the legend that refers to "Yagami holds, and the Kusanagi strikes". In KOF, Iori holds on to Orochi so Kyo could finish him off. However, Iori had to deal with his Riot of Blood thing, and becoming an Orochi puppet (only those of the actual Orochi bloodline can actually control such power. Iori and Leona are half-breeds, per say). In fact, his geyser super has the "eight cups of wine" name in it, and look at the purpose of the super...it holds people down. It also tends to be a bit ironic on how Kyo and Iori are sworn rivals when they are supposed to be allies. *Kagura. Member of the Clan of the Yata. After being slain, the eight-headed Orochi dragon was sealed away in a mirror. The members of the Clan of the Yata are threfore comitted to watch over the seal for the following eons. Chizuru's older sister was the one in charge of looking over the seal, but she was killed by Goenitz, and the seal was broken. Chizuru takes her place. Notice how Chizuru's powers have something to do with "purifying" and "sealing away". She also talks a lot about "mirrors" in her victory poses ("I see the real you in the mirror!"). And in her special intro with Kyo and Iori in KOF '98 (not story-related, but gives you more character insight), she reveals a mirror to them. It's Chizuru's TOUGH task to actually make Kyo and Iori cooperate to seal the Orochi away again. Notice how the team of Kyo-Iori-Chizuru is called "Three Weapons of God". *Yuki. Kyo's girlfriend, she's a Kushinada...in the Orochi legend, 8 Kushinada girls were to be sacrificed to satisfy the eight-headed Orochi dragon, but I THINK there was a Kushinada girl that manages to be saved from being sacrificed. There has been a lot of hoopla regarding if Yuki is dead or alive in the KOF series. The Orochi New Face Team (Yashiro, Shermie, and Chris) claim that they need to sacrifice 8 Kushinada girls to awaken the Orochi into the world, and give him fighting energy to obtain enough power to vanquish the world. Yashiro tags Yuki as a Kushinada girl, but does not specify if they killed her or not. Also, ironic case that the Kushinada has to be Kyo's girlfriend...Notice how, in the end of KOF '97, after Kyo unleashes the final blow on the Orochi, the image of Yuki appears, and tells Kyo that "She will be waiting for him". I don't know if that means that Yuki hopes Kyo will stay alive and come back to her (which seems more logical), or if Yuki is waiting for Kyo in the other world (which would seem less reasonable, since Kyo was never intended to die). My guess? She still lives.... *K'. Huh!? K'? The Kyo clone? He has no part in the Orochi legend! No? Well, here's an interesting thing. You see, in the Orochi legend, Susano Orbatos was the man who wielded the Kusanagi sword to kill the eight-headed Orochi dragon. Susano was a good guy, but was too much of a badass and didn't appreciate life very much. Enter K': a man who wields KUSANAGI power, and is pretty much a badass himself. Coincidence? We'll see.... OK, so...any other doubts? __________________ There is no love or hatred in my soul...Only Lantis! First Champion of SRK Survivor Tournament - Character: Rock Howard "And then there will be no more suffering...there will be no more pain...and those who suffered will now be walking in the light of God" .-For the victims of September 11, 2001 Posted by Lantis on September 19th, 2001 03:56 PM: In fact, in KOF '98, Kyo doesn't even like his own FATHER! (frowned face) Damn, Kyo is one anti-social bastard... And Kyo and Benimaru don't seem to get along well at ALL with the USA Sports Hero team...also, HUH!? About the Kyo and clones bossing Shingo around...that was a special ending pic that appeared if you finished the home versions of KOF '99 with the "3 Loads Team": Kyo, Kyo-1, Kyo-2, and Shingo. Kyo shouts "BREAD!", Kyo-1 demands some "MEAT!", Kyo-2 (with a fish in his mouth) bids for "FISH!", and a confused Shingo runs away, saying "Y-YES SIR!". There's also a funny pic with Kyo sitting atop Kyo-1 and 2...and Shingo too. __________________ There is no love or hatred in my soul...Only Lantis! First Champion of SRK Survivor Tournament - Character: Rock Howard "And then there will be no more suffering...there will be no more pain...and those who suffered will now be walking in the light of God" .-For the victims of September 11, 2001 Posted by trucutru on September 19th, 2001 04:16 PM: quote: Originally posted by BooBoo where is this picture, it sounds hella funny! does a website have it somewhere? Get KOF 99 for playstation. It has lots of special pictures in it (For some you have to finish the game with a special team). My favorite was the "Whip's disciples" picture. I don't remember it very clearly but it has whip sitting on top of K' (I think its K', he's on his fours) while Kyo is cleaning her boots and she has her whip around Iori's neck and is pulling him towards her. Iori's face is priceless. Take that! overpowered main Chars! __________________ - Trucutru Posted by Miang on September 19th, 2001 05:13 PM: I do remember that Chika used to threaten to bean the next person over the head who claimed that Kyo and Iori's fighting styles were called "Magatama", they aren't... Kyo's style is Kusangiriyuukobujutsu and Garyuukenpou, or basically ancient Kusanagi-weapon style martial arts plus some Chinese Kenpou and some moves that he invented himself. Iori's style is Yagami-ryuu Kobujutsu plus Honnou, or ancient Yagami-style plus his own instinct. Athena is actually SNK's oldest character I think. She's had three of her own games. "Athena" is the oldest, it's kind of a very weird platformer. Psycho Soldier was a side-scrolling shooter, Kensou also made his debut here, this is also the game where she gets her theme music from (She's just a little girl with power inside, burning bright. You'd better hide if you are bad, she'll get you... Ack). The third one would be a much later Playstation game called "Athena, awakening from ordinary life" as I recall... There used to be a KoF plot thread that involved Athena getting stronger with every game, I don't know whether they ever plan on doing anything with it or not but she's been pretty much continually toned down since her 96-virtual demigoddess abilities (Including a very strange bug where if you got hit early in the SCB initialization you could keep the crystals orbiting around yourself the entire match, one FAQ I read called "Super Saiyajin Athena Mode"...) Terry and Andy were both adopted by Jeff Bogard and then reorphed after Geese killed him. Both Jeff and Geese were tought by the same master but Jeff had been selected to become his successor as Geese' ambitions were too transparent. It was after this that Geese killed Jeff, I'm not sure if it was planned so that he'd be the only remaining student that could take on the role or simply if it was out of spite. SNK conspiracists have also speculated about whether or not Terry and Andy might actually be Geese's own children. They do look a bit alike... And I can't remember where I should attribute this to but someone once described the SNK-verse as "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, Benimaru is from Alpha Signi". Posted by BooBoo on September 19th, 2001 05:13 PM: quote: Originally posted by Lantis Boo Boo? What the hell? Are you like...from the KOF ML? haha, it's me, yeah. i created this account long ago, but i didnt use it because I associate "booBoo" with KOF stuff, not Capcom stuff. But I only play KOF now, so now I don't feel so weird using BooBoo on SRK. and about those pics, they sound hella funny, hehe. it's on playstation, huh, tructuru? Hmm, i don't have that console, though, oh well. Posted by Yagami on September 19th, 2001 05:48 PM: Question Lantis:When was the Yagami clan named "hakeshu"?Before the Hakeshu clan and the Kusanagi clans defeated the orochi beast?Or after?Cuz they used the Kusanagi Sword,the Hakeshu Necklace and kagura Mirror,right? And yeah Iori rocks!It sez in his profile that he "hates" violence..yet..look at his fighting moves!Jeeze... Hey sum1 sed that Kyo n Iori are Allies now?Ur reffering to the ending of KOF 99 right?When Iori and Kyo fight "a fight for old times sake"?Hey,they still wanna kill each other right? Yuki's alive.I know it.I'll hunt her down..then Kyo..hehe N wats the name of Iori's rock band?Lotsa chicks dig him but he duzznt care.In the KOF Zillion comics there's a scene where he's in a house with this woman..his WIFE?his GIRLFRIEND?man..what a thought.. Posted by Lantis on September 19th, 2001 06:10 PM: Yagami: Actually, I think Hakkeshu is the name that is tagged on those of Orochi blood...in the Hero Team's ending of KOF '97, when Kyo says "Hakkeshu", the image of Yamazaki, Yashiro, Shermie, Chris, Goenitz, Vice, and Mature appear in the sky. As far as I can tell, there was no sort of "necklace" involved in the whole Orochi gig...unless I missed something. Yagamis were supposed to put the Orochi dragon to sleep with 8 cups of wine. Kyo and Iori just helped each other out twice, but not precisely on their own free will (the "Three Weapons of God" team). In KOF '96, they teamed up to defeat Goenitz, and for the first time ever, Iori managed to detach himself from the Orochi influence for a bit, and wielded crimson flames, but after that, he instantly got into Riot of Blood mode. Then you have the KOF '97 ending where they both team up to seal the Orochi away. But I think their rivalry is far from over...as far as I can tell, Iori wants to fight Kyo with no exterior meddling (read: NESTS). I don't know about the name of Iori's band. The NFT's team band name is "CYS" (stands for Chris/Yashiro/Shermie, duh! ) I don't really share your optimism for Iori...in fact, if you know me, I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE IORI YAGAMI! Cheap bastard...no, not even Chang, Choi, Bao, or Lin could quench my hatred for that red-haired punk... Boo Boo: Aaahh! Memories! I wish I could rejoin (I'm a bit shaken after the whole WTC shit, wanna check out on things) but Listar is being a bitch and won't let me in? Anyways, nice to see there is still some old school KOF left! __________________ There is no love or hatred in my soul...Only Lantis! First Champion of SRK Survivor Tournament - Character: Rock Howard "And then there will be no more suffering...there will be no more pain...and those who suffered will now be walking in the light of God" .-For the victims of September 11, 2001 Posted by trucutru on September 19th, 2001 06:43 PM: to BooBoo: The pictures are on the PSX but there may be a few of them on the dreamcast version. But, since it seems that you require to "link" it to the Neogeo pocket color version in order to get the extras and I do not have a NGPC I don't know if they are in the Dreamcast version or not. I like those extras especially for the "design" drawings of the characters. There you can see designs that weren't aproved like Maxima looking like even more of a Dolt, "evil" Jhun (you know, the rival of "good" Kim), like 2136123124 athena costumes, Bao as as girl (now wonder why he looks so gay), Soccer team players Ralf&Clark, Cowboy Costume Whip (with a lasso!) and a lot of ugly as hell characters. to Yagami: Iori's profile, which is supposed to be written by him, says that he hates violence because he is Wacko and truly believes that. But, the best profile has to be Yuri's. Among her "hated things" is Mr. Karate and under her "loved things" is her Father (This, of course written with Takuma's hand writting, not Yuri's. Oh yeah, Iori still hates Kyo and he does have a girlfriend (poor thing) but SNK has never given details about it. Which is weird taking into account the huge amount of insignificant details they give. Does somebody really want to know that Yashiro dislikes Pickled Plums? (Mwahahaha! I'm going to revive Orochi! I'm such a badass. What's that? A Pickled Plum! Noooooooooooo!) to Lantis: Right now the KOF mail list is mostly Dead, so you are not missing much. There will be activity after Eolith shows some of KOF 2001 and after the launch of the game, of course. __________________ - Trucutru Posted by Clay on September 19th, 2001 06:59 PM: Forte: Yeah, Gouki is holding back the vast majority of his true power. Nobody has ever pushed him enough that he was required to his everything that is at his disposal. Gouki thinks that Ryu is able to reach a similar level and waits for this challenge. I think that Oro could give Gouki a good fight, but Gouki is probably a better-trained fighter, though Oro has no major weaknesses (he has lead a life free of sin and has no desire for material objects or titles (much like Ryu); this has allowed him to reach levels that are unattainable for other humans). In the past, Gen put up a decent fight (I think that he is able to survive the Shun-goku-satsu), but I don't think that he pushed Gouki anywhere near his limits. Gimpy: Good point about a character's attributes. I pick Ryu not only because I like his fighting style (his timing seems to coincide with my instincts) but also because of his serious nature. I respect the fact that he is able to focus so well on his training and that he seeks only to improve himself. His lack of greed and selfishness (which some say makes him boring) is what I like most about him. TS: If you (or anyone else, for that matter) have any ideas about Gouki's origin, I would like to hear them. I might learn something. -Clay __________________ "The world is big! There must be no limit to human strength...." -Ryu Posted by ImMature on September 19th, 2001 09:04 PM: quote: Originally posted by Yagami When was the Yagami clan named "hakeshu"?Before the Hakeshu clan and the Kusanagi clans defeated the orochi beast?Or after?Cuz they used the Kusanagi Sword,the Hakeshu Necklace and kagura Mirror,right? Me thinks that the name you're actually looking for it's not 'Hakkeshu' but 'Yasakani'. Yasakani is the Yagami clan's original name, only that it was changed to Yagami after they allied with the Orochi in order to defeat the Kusanagi like 1600 years ago or so. Since Yagami apparently translates as 'Eight Gods' it just makes sense, doesn't it? As a result of this alliance the Yasakani/Yagami got their flames turned to purple as well, which is apparently a sign of the Orochi (Orochi Chris is another example of this, and as for MOTW's Kain...oh well, who knows?) OTOH the Hakkeshu are like the pure-blooded siblings of the Orochi, and of course there are/were 8 of 'em: Goenitz, Yashiro, Shermie, Chris, Yamazaki, Mature, Vice and Gaidel (Leona's father). Each 1 of 'em represents 1 of the heads of the original Dragon god and (apparently) an elemental power as well, even though we've only seen a display of the Heavenly Kings'(Goenitz, Yashiro, Shermie & Chris) powers by now (Wind, Earth, Electricity and Fire respectively) Leona, Iori and Rugal are only half-Orochi though (that's it, not part of the Hakkeshu). Leona was the daughter of 1 of the Hakkeshu, Gaidel, who refused to join forces with Goenitz against Mankind so Goenitz provoked the Riot of the Blood on Leona on retaliation and forced her to kill her own family. Iori has the Orochi blood as a result of the pact between his clan and the Orochi, as related above. And Rugal, he challenged Goenitz to a fight once and lost his right eye as a result of it, but "fortunately" for him Goenitz spared his life and (somehow) gave him Orochi blood. Too bad that, being basically a human, his body couldn't stand the Orochi power and he blew up in KOF'95... __________________ ExitWindowsEx(EWX_SHUTDOWN,0) ==> best Windows API function EVER "bring some tight azz bitches and watch me's power grows exponentially" - GN Posted by otherdane on September 19th, 2001 09:53 PM: Well...I seem to recall Ryu walking on the surface of the moon once...now that must certainly require some supernatural powers to resist the effects of zero-atmosphere! 'course, that was in some vs. game ending...heh... -Also, didn't anyone find it strange that Bison (in the movie) could have easily beaten Ryu and Ken if he hadn't chosen to stop using his Psycho power? Even without it, he seemed to be alot better than either of them individually...and does anyone know more about Guile? His powers are never really explained, and his style is hardly the Air Force standard (especially his crazy f+FK); plus, in the movie, he's the only other character capable focusing his Ki into a projectile (he split a house in half with his SB)...again, not very consistent with military training. Anyway, any insights? Oh lastly, I'm new to the boards, but have been loving the site despite their being little competition where I live (Oregon...); anyways, do you guys accept fan art or is there any interest in me posting any? Fighters.net has a section, but their postings are sorta meager right now... Posted by soujiroten on September 19th, 2001 09:59 PM: They never explain a lot of stuff, like how Dhalsim can spit fire, how blanka can electrocute, etc. Gaming is gaming. None of the movies are even canon. If it makes you feel better, you can assume they're all mutants or something. --SJ Posted by BooBoo on September 19th, 2001 10:52 PM: quote: Originally posted by otherdane Well...I seem to recall Ryu walking on the surface of the moon once...now that must certainly require some supernatural powers to resist the effects of zero-atmosphere! 'course, that was in some vs. game ending...heh... haha, yah, vs endings are funny. I remember an ending where Dhalsim had Shuma Gorath over for lunch as a guest, it was hella funny, Shuma kept babbling mumbo jumbo while Dhalsim made pleasant conversation... Posted by ProTect on September 20th, 2001 12:49 AM: Athena's supposed to be the latest incarnation of the Greek goddess of wisdom. Why she would choose to incarnate as a ditzy Japanese high school student learning martial arts from a drunken master I don't know.... Chizura's twin sister had been killed by Goenitz ten years ago. They both had been Kagura (women who dance to please the gods; in this case Orochi). Basically they were human pacifiers. The outfit she wears in her intros against members of the Orochi bloodline is her Kagura dress. __________________ Those aren't children. They're packets of cream cheese. - Space Ghost Roll over, Liberty. -Chevy Chase as Gerald Ford "The OutKastz" Number 9... Number 9... Number 9... Posted by kusanagi on September 20th, 2001 07:21 PM: yeah, Kyo is opposite from the goodie goodie train all day martial artist main character such as Ryu, Terry, and Ryo. Along with a most interesting Rival Iori who design wise is much more impressive than Ken, Andy/Joe, or Robert. Someone mentioned info about King: I'll just post the known couples of KOF. Kyo - Yuki (dead? i believe so) Terry - Blue Mary Andy - Mai Joe - Lilly Kane Ryo - King Robert - Yuri Kensou - Athena heres some funny comics relating to CvS from ON.com http://www.planetdreamcast.com/oroc...akurashingo.gif http://planetdreamcast.com/orochina...s/teamjapan.jpg more here: http://planetdreamcast.com/orochinagi/funnies/ __________________ aahhh... KURAI YAGARE!!! Posted by Benor on September 20th, 2001 10:46 PM: quote: Originally posted by Gimpy Yeah we do. They both have the same type of personalities and character traits. For the people who might not know, they both were introduced to martial arts at a young age. They both have masters who were like fathers to them(I hear that Jeff was Terry and Andy's adopted father). They both had sparring partners that are like brothers to them. They both had their sensei killed by someone that was close or connected to them, Geese being Jeff's murderer and Akuma being Gouken's murderer, bring out their true warrior spirit. Both of their rivals want to prove that they are equal to them. And both of them took in students that have the ability to become great fighters. With Kyo I see him with the arrogance and cockiness of Ken. I persoanlly wished that SNK had pushed the FF series like it did with KoF. Well, as far as we know, Terry and Andy are really brothers; Jeff found them as a pair, they look similar (same hair color and basic facial features), and Andy refers to Terry as his "big brother". I agree totally. Ryu and Terry are the true rivals of Capcom and SNK in my mind. __________________ Pain is a luxury I can't afford. Posted by ImMature on September 20th, 2001 10:58 PM: Terry is still SNK's main representative in the minds and hearts of almost every SNK fan outside Japan (no offense, Kyo fans ) __________________ ExitWindowsEx(EWX_SHUTDOWN,0) ==> best Windows API function EVER "bring some tight azz bitches and watch me's power grows exponentially" - GN Posted by Tripple on September 21st, 2001 01:43 AM: Just for reference, has anybody seen an anime called "Blue Seed" The main character name is Kushinada, she just happens to be a sacrafice to the aragami. Another characters name is Kusanagi. Hmmm, very familar Posted by soujiroten on September 21st, 2001 02:19 AM: It's a japanese legend that was adapted in both cases. The Kushinada family and the 8-headed Orochi dragon are intertwined in history. I'd look up the original legend again, but I'm feeling kind of sick of it at the moment. --SJ Posted by Yagami on September 21st, 2001 04:23 PM: quote: Actually, I think Hakkeshu is the name that is tagged on those of Orochi blood...in the Hero Team's ending of KOF '97, when Kyo says "Hakkeshu", the image of Yamazaki, Yashiro, Shermie, Chris, Goenitz, Vice, and Mature appear in the sky. As far as I can tell, there was no sort of "necklace" involved in the whole Orochi gig...unless I missed something. Yagamis were supposed to put the Orochi dragon to sleep with 8 cups of wine. Ah yes..my memory is coming back now..about the necklace..you guys read the KOF Zillion comics?(www.kofonline.com) cuz I actually bought a copy in Singapore and they gave me this free "Hakeshu" necklace.It was supposedly used with the Kusanagi Sword and the Kagura Mirror to defeat..uh..maybe not the eight headed Orochi beast but something else?? quote: Kyo and Iori just helped each other out twice, but not precisely on their own free will (the "Three Weapons of God" team). In KOF '96, they teamed up to defeat Goenitz, and for the first time ever, Iori managed to detach himself from the Orochi influence for a bit, and wielded crimson flames, but after that, he instantly got into Riot of Blood mode. Then you have the KOF '97 ending where they both team up to seal the Orochi away. But I think their rivalry is far from over...as far as I can tell, Iori wants to fight Kyo with no exterior meddling (read: NESTS). Check out Kof 99's ending with..I'm not sure if it was Kyo or iori's(or K..hehe)...but the dialogue is pretty interesting between Iori and Kyo.It seems that the fight in the collasping Nests HQ was more a a fight for fight's sake than a "I wanna rip ur balls off then eat ur head" fight.. quote: I don't really share your optimism for Iori...in fact, if you know me, I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE IORI YAGAMI! Cheap bastard...no, not even Chang, Choi, Bao, or Lin could quench my hatred for that red-haired punk... Waha...I know how you feel especially in Kof..but in CVS2? quote: Iori's profile, which is supposed to be written by him, says that he hates violence because he is Wacko and truly believes that. But, the best profile has to be Yuri's. Among her "hated things" is Mr. Karate and under her "loved things" is her Father (This, of course written with Takuma's hand writting, not Yuri's. Yeah hes a wacko alright! quote: Oh yeah, Iori still hates Kyo and he does have a girlfriend (poor thing) but SNK has never given details about it. Which is weird taking into account the huge amount of insignificant details they give. Does somebody really want to know that Yashiro dislikes Pickled Plums? (Mwahahaha! I'm going to revive Orochi! I'm such a badass. What's that? A Pickled Plum! Noooooooooooo!) yeah i'de pay good money to find out the name of that poor,poor lady.BTW what Iori was wearing in the scene where they show his GF is the trenchcoat outsit in "another"Iori,stiker in kof2k. quote: Me thinks that the name you're actually looking for it's not 'Hakkeshu' but 'Yasakani'. Yasakani is the Yagami clan's original name, only that it was changed to Yagami after they allied with the Orochi in order to defeat the Kusanagi like 1600 years ago or so. Since Yagami apparently translates as 'Eight Gods' it just makes sense, doesn't it? As a result of this alliance the Yasakani/Yagami got their flames turned to purple as well, which is apparently a sign of the Orochi (Orochi Chris is another example of this, and as for MOTW's Kain...oh well, who knows?) Ah..yes..Yasakani..Thanx dude I was pretty messed up there..but what about the hakeshu necklace?So which means "to hold"?Hakeshu,Yasakani or Yagami? quote: OTOH the Hakkeshu are like the pure-blooded siblings of the Orochi, and of course there are/were 8 of 'em: Goenitz, Yashiro, Shermie, Chris, Yamazaki, Mature, Vice and Gaidel (Leona's father). Each 1 of 'em represents 1 of the heads of the original Dragon god and (apparently) an elemental power as well, even though we've only seen a display of the Heavenly Kings'(Goenitz, Yashiro, Shermie & Chris) powers by now (Wind, Earth, Electricity and Fire respectively) Methinks that Leona's power cud be derived from her fathers..Mature and Vice got killed by Iori(still not confirmed if deyr dead,right?),so I guess we'll never see what Orochi stuff they can do. quote: Leona, Iori and Rugal are only half-Orochi though (that's it, not part of the Hakkeshu). Leona was the daughter of 1 of the Hakkeshu, Gaidel, who refused to join forces with Goenitz against Mankind so Goenitz provoked the Riot of the Blood on Leona on retaliation and forced her to kill her own family. Iori has the Orochi blood as a result of the pact between his clan and the Orochi, as related above. And Rugal, he challenged Goenitz to a fight once and lost his right eye as a result of it, but "fortunately" for him Goenitz spared his life and (somehow) gave him Orochi blood. Too bad that, being basically a human, his body couldn't stand the Orochi power and he blew up in KOF'95... Not only her family,but the Leona's whole Village!Thats when Heidern found Leona in a jungle near her village...poor villagers.. BTW the pact between the Yagami's and Orochi,I think,will end after a while.Something like the Britain-hongkong agreement.Iori hates his Orochi bloodline,and whenever he weilds his purple flames,he feels pain.Which is why he can never be as powerfull as Kyo. Posted by Miang on September 21st, 2001 06:39 PM: quote: Each 1 of 'em represents 1 of the heads of the original Dragon god and (apparently) an elemental power as well, even though we've only seen a display of the Heavenly Kings'(Goenitz, Yashiro, Shermie & Chris) powers by now (Wind, Earth, Electricity and Fire respectively) I'm just guessing but I think that Yamazaki would probably be "space" judging from his snake arm tricks. I suppose it might be possible to figure out Gaidel's abilities from Leona. quote: Methinks that Leona's power cud be derived from her fathers..Mature and Vice got killed by Iori(still not confirmed if deyr dead,right?),so I guess we'll never see what Orochi stuff they can do. As far as anyone knows. KoF 98 was a "Dream match", it doesn't have any actual place in the KoF storyline. quote: Iori hates his Orochi bloodline,and whenever he weilds his purple flames,he feels pain.Which is why he can never be as powerfull as Kyo. Actually, if I remember correctly, Iori's fires are considerably more powerful than Kyo's, that was what the bargain was for after all. However, using them causes Iori considerable pain and they also shorten his lifespan (As well as that of all Yagamis). Posted by ImMature on September 21st, 2001 09:15 PM: Just a few things here and there... I'm not actually sure of what that 'Hakkeshu' necklace has to do with the KOF storyline. But as for the original Japanese legend (which I read a while ago), there was no necklace involved at all IIRC, only the Sword (named 'Kusanagi' but NOT after the Orochi legend) that was used to slay the eight-headed serpent Orochi, the eight cups of wine (yeah, as in Iori's (S)DM) that the god Susanowo offered to the Serpent to put him to sleep, and the Kush-Inada maiden, that's all. Me thinks that since the Kusanagi Sword, the Mirror and the Necklace are considered Japan's sacred treasures according to Shinto, SNK just mixed 'em all in their remake of the Orochi legend for the sake of it... Yeah, apparently Mature & Vice got killed by Iori in KOF'96 (Orochi Assasins ending) but that stuff is not confirmed yet, so...Also, I think that the pact between Orochi and the Yagami broke in '97 when Iori attacked the Orochi As for trying to figure out Gaidel's powers from Leona, well...Leona's fighting style is pretty influenced by Heidern's but it could be...I mean, the Baltic Launcher and her qcb+P, how the fuck does she make that green stuff come out from nowhere?? Beats me __________________ ExitWindowsEx(EWX_SHUTDOWN,0) ==> best Windows API function EVER "bring some tight azz bitches and watch me's power grows exponentially" - GN Posted by Lantis on September 21st, 2001 09:29 PM: It has been proven that some Orochi members have the following traits: *Can cut with their bare hands/legs (Iori, Goenitz, Vice, Mature, Leona...but she could have just learned that from Heidern. Heidern and Jhun notwitstanding ). *Can move their arms so fast it looks like a blur (Yamazaki, Mature, Vice). It seems more likely to me that neither Yamazaki or Leona have special attributes as the only persons capable of wielding elemental powers are the Four Heavenly Kings of Orochi (Mature and Vice don't have any special Orochi trait aside from the energy emanations). In fact, Kyo is also supposed to not be able to withstand an extended use of flames (pain after a while), that's why he used his gloves that he later gave Shingo. Saishu and the '99/2K incarnations of Kyo could show the ultimate mastery of Kusanagi flames (no special gloves), so I guess you have to use the gloves in order to get used to wielding the Kusanagi flames... Iori's pact with the Orochi has not been broken...his flames are still purple, which are a mark of the pact. Also, take a small look on Iori's new KOF 2K super (the huge purple geysers)...his grim face shows that he has not yet ENTIRELY supressed the evil within him (but more likely, he has come to terms with it). __________________ There is no love or hatred in my soul...Only Lantis! First Champion of SRK Survivor Tournament - Character: Rock Howard "And then there will be no more suffering...there will be no more pain...and those who suffered will now be walking in the light of God" .-For the victims of September 11, 2001 Posted by Lantis on September 21st, 2001 09:33 PM: Yagami: That is the KOF 2K ending you talk about (Kyo and Iori's). They fight each other with no wrath...but as true warriors...but that won't surely mean that they will end their rivalry... Inmature: Do you mean the Eye Launcher (QCB + P boomerang thing)? That is just a blade installed in Leona's hair...I guess? Look at when she tries to kill herself in the Ikari team's KOF '97 ending...when Ralf grabs her hand, she is holding something shiny...but...then why doesn't anything drop from Leona's hair when she removes her name tags from her hair and it drops? Ack, I'm seeing too much into things... __________________ There is no love or hatred in my soul...Only Lantis! First Champion of SRK Survivor Tournament - Character: Rock Howard "And then there will be no more suffering...there will be no more pain...and those who suffered will now be walking in the light of God" .-For the victims of September 11, 2001 Posted by Chaotic Blue on September 21st, 2001 09:41 PM: anyone have any additional information on morrigan. all I know is that she's a succubus and she basically fucks the life outta you. (And sometimes sucks, ooooooh yeah!) But any other info would be appreciated. choice way to die? by morrigan, its just too good! Chaotic Blue __________________ Typical James Games Tournament. Crazy Gideon: "Peter Rosas to machine 1!" Me: "Dude he's already playing" Crazy Gideon: "I know, he is disqualified. Next will be Mike Hunt vrs Mike Hawk." ... "Mike Hawk was taken from Mike Hunt, Mike Hunt is the winner!" Posted by Lantis on September 21st, 2001 09:49 PM: Morrigan is a Scotish succubus, alright (but why she has so corny English, is beyond me...but that's Capcom english vocabulary for ya! ). She's the daughter of the king of the Demon World, Belial, who actually fought and defeated Jedah (the ULTRA COOL bad guy from DS 3), and sealed him away for centuries to come. Morrigan is the heir to King Belial's throne, and according to legend, Morrigan was pure evil, until her power got divided (I think by Belial himself, deeming her too dangerous), and her other self was called Lilith. Lilith was also sealed away, until she broke free, and now searches her "other half" (which Morrigan had no idea it existed). I think Lilith is like Morrigan's..."good side" or something along that line. Morrigan takes men's souls by entering their dreams, giving them a "nice ride" while in their dreams, deprive them in their soul, and the man dies...but their soul lives on forever, dreaming that they're still doing Morrigan for all eternity...not such a bad death, if I do say so myself... __________________ There is no love or hatred in my soul...Only Lantis! First Champion of SRK Survivor Tournament - Character: Rock Howard "And then there will be no more suffering...there will be no more pain...and those who suffered will now be walking in the light of God" .-For the victims of September 11, 2001 Posted by ImMature on September 21st, 2001 09:53 PM: Hey Lantis, on 2nd thought I guess you're right about the Yagami/Orochi pact not being broken. Maybe there is nothing Iori and relatives/descents can do to break such pact or maybe not (since Iori managed to wield "red" flames for a short while). Also, perhaps it's impossible to know which the powers of the unawakened Hakkeshu could be all about...I mean, what do normal Yashiro's powers have to do with O. Yashiro's for example? Same with Shermie and Chris. As for the rest we never got to see the awakened forms of Yamazaki, Mature & Vice, or the unawakaned form of Goenitz, so... EDIT: And dude, the boomerang thingie SURE doesn't look like a blade __________________ ExitWindowsEx(EWX_SHUTDOWN,0) ==> best Windows API function EVER "bring some tight azz bitches and watch me's power grows exponentially" - GN Posted by Lantis on September 21st, 2001 10:06 PM: Like I said...elemental powers only seem to manifest in the Four Heavenly Kings of Orochi. Yashiro, Shermie, and Chris used fighting styles they created themselves...no previous training. They got the natural fighting talent. Then, they obtain some really nasty powers once they reveal their true Orochi nature. The other 4 Orochi members (Yamazaki, Mature, Vice, Leona) don't have any special powers. Leona presented no special attributes once she manifested. Vice had some syntomes in KOF '98 (yeah, yeah, non-related game, but we can use it as a measuring pole), but yet had nothing that couldn't be seen in KOF '96. When the Riot of Blood takes place in the Four Heavenly Kings, they become higher entities. When the Riot of Blood takes place in the others...they should better have good mind coordination, or be lost in the madness their own cursed blood will take them! So...that's it...and the blade...err...Leona has exploding earrings! __________________ There is no love or hatred in my soul...Only Lantis! First Champion of SRK Survivor Tournament - Character: Rock Howard "And then there will be no more suffering...there will be no more pain...and those who suffered will now be walking in the light of God" .-For the victims of September 11, 2001 Posted by Osakabest the Jap on September 21st, 2001 10:21 PM: Word from ImMature-san! quote: Originally posted by Lantis Like I said...elemental powers only seem to manifest in the Four Heavenly Kings of Orochi. Yashiro, Shermie, and Chris used fighting styles they created themselves...no previous training. They got the natural fighting talent. Then, they obtain some really nasty powers once they reveal their true Orochi nature. The other 4 Orochi members (Yamazaki, Mature, Vice, Leona) don't have any special powers. Leona presented no special attributes once she manifested. Vice had some syntomes in KOF '98 (yeah, yeah, non-related game, but we can use it as a measuring pole), but yet had nothing that couldn't be seen in KOF '96. When the Riot of Blood takes place in the Four Heavenly Kings, they become higher entities. When the Riot of Blood takes place in the others...they should better have good mind coordination, or be lost in the madness their own cursed blood will take them! Ok now my theory: All the Hakkeshu have the potential to control elemental powers BUT...only Goenitz developed this ability before '97. Leona presented no special attributes and is subject to the Riot of the Blood cuz she's a half-breed like Iori, so she doesn't really count ; Mature & Vice got (apparently) killed before the Big Orochi Awakening of '97. And Yamazaki REJECTED the Orochi ('97 Special Team ending). Remember that no one of the TRUE Hakkeshu peeps (Yama, Vice & Mature) suffers from the RotB either (and if Yama and Vice look real weird in some cases, well, it's cause they're fucking nuts ) quote: Originally posted by Lantis So...that's it...and the blade...err...Leona has exploding earrings! Yeah. And Whip has a gun. 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